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TOPIC: UCET discover new fish first?

UCET discover new fish first? 4 months 2 weeks ago #30760

  • Ian
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An article has been published by the BBC claiming that a new "cave fish" has been discovered in Europe - Southern Germany.

It's here;

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-39446505


However, while in Poachers I saw that fish (not that exact one) but one identical.

I was with Doug, Ade and Jodie on the 23rd March 2017.

I stopped everyone so they could look at it. It was in the first low duck at the back of the cave and sat on top of the silt. The others could not get around me to see it without the silt being disturbed but they will recall the precise description I gave which matches the photograph of the one apparently newly discovered in Germany.

I think that's one for us.

:)

Ian
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Last Edit: 4 months 2 weeks ago by Ian. Reason: Added date
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UCET discover new fish first? 4 months 2 weeks ago #30771

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Bagsy calling it "Fishy McFishface"
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UCET discover new fish first? 4 months 2 weeks ago #30781

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I can confirm that Ian was very excited about a fish that he could see, which he said looked a bit like a catfish of some kind, wish I had seen it myself.
Mind you, the first cave fish in Europe seems a bit of an exageration, what about the white trout in Ogof Draenen, I have seem them.
Mae bradwyr ymhobman
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UCET discover new fish first? 4 months 2 weeks ago #30783

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I,ve seen loads if fish in caves they are called fookin big eels I have even had one swim up my boiler suit
even though it scared the shit out of me it put a smile on linda,s face to see it wriggle so what the hell
mick
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UCET discover new fish first? 4 months 2 weeks ago #30784

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I think what the BBC were getting at (read the link at the outset)is that this particular fish has evolved in caves (rather than simply being found there) and, as such, is "new".

They are reporting that the first one is in Germany.

However, I am convinced that the one we saw in Poachers is identical.

.... Which means we discovered it first !

:)

Ian
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UCET discover new fish first? 4 months 2 weeks ago #30786

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Need to go back for another look and to try to catch it alive.
TBA TBC TBONTBTITQ
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UCET discover new fish first? 4 months 2 weeks ago #30787

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Ant89 wrote:
Need to go back for another look and to try to catch it alive.

why have you got a bag of chips :whistle: :whistle:
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UCET discover new fish first? 4 months 2 weeks ago #30788

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Ant89 wrote:
Need to go back for another look and to try to catch it alive.

Where there is one there is likely to be more?

Any fish that are brought in from the surface would not be "new" and would be identifiable as non-indigenous.

The fish we found cannot have come from the surface and neither can it have been flushed down to the levels below (it could not get back up).

It is significantly likely it is still there and is part of a teem .... Because it could not exist there otherwise.

And, it does exist there.

QED

:)

Ian
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Last Edit: 4 months 2 weeks ago by Ian.
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UCET discover new fish first? 4 months 2 weeks ago #30789

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its been flushed in from the river alyn , div :evil: :evil:
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UCET discover new fish first? 4 months 2 weeks ago #30790

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i think most fish that are born in complete darkness deform to some point eg look at the fish in the oceans
at depths of 4 miles + a lot of these each year are new species what would a human child born in a cave and never saw daylight at 50 would his eyes be blacked out would his noise have changed shape to sniff out food
would he have hair and every time he has children and they have children something must change in a complete
dark world over time you would not look like us today
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UCET discover new fish first? 4 months 2 weeks ago #30791

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mike leahy wrote:
its been flushed in from the river alyn , div :evil: :evil:


If you bothered to read the BBC article you would realise that is impossible.

.... I accept your apology.

:P

Ian
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UCET discover new fish first? 4 months 2 weeks ago #30792

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fuck the bbc. what do they know, especially about the river alyn which has a direct feed into poachers . and yes i will accept your apology
oh and there bloody german (they bombed our chippy you know)
Last Edit: 4 months 2 weeks ago by mike leahy.
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UCET discover new fish first? 4 months 2 weeks ago #30793

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Ian wrote:
Ant89 wrote:
Need to go back for another look and to try to catch it alive.

Where there is one there is likely to be more? quite possibly. Would be interesting to find out if there is a population in there.

Any fish that are brought in from the surface would not be "new" and would be identifiable as non-indigenous. it's likely that some fish do occasionally get washed in or had been washed in at some point.

The fish we found cannot have come from the surface and neither can it have been flushed down to the levels below (it could not get back up).

It is significantly likely it is still there and is part of a teem .... Because it could not exist there otherwise.

And, it does exist there.

QED

:)

Ian

Some direct replies in bold above.
Finding one or more would be useful for determining species. In all likelihood these are a fish you will find on the surface but isolated by a few generations. Perhaps a new subspecies?

Question is though. Why do you discover all the new species
TBA TBC TBONTBTITQ
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UCET discover new fish first? 4 months 2 weeks ago #30795

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I think, in a case like this, you need the guidance of an "expert".

We have one.

The BBC (if you ever bother to read the report) explains WHY the species (or perhaps as Ant says, "sub-species") is indigenous to caves and cannot have come from the river above.

Furthermore, it is quite impossible for the fish (in the BBC article) to have originated from anywhere except from inside a cave system.

I am totally convinced I saw the same fish. I described it as such to those with me at the time. (Doug has already confirmed) The only possible doubt is that I saw no colour in the one in Poachers. However, it is a bottom feeder by nature and was sat on silt. I had my lamp aimed directly at it and I doubt that any pink tinge would have been visible in the circumstances.

I can affirm that, what I saw, matches EXACTLY (the above accepted) the fish in the article.

If that is true, the entire species MUST be present in Poachers and cannot have come from above or below (save for Ant's sub-species statement).

The expert is Ant and I am satisfied he knows exactly what he is talking about.

All things being equal, it will be possible to go back and find "them" (there MUST be a host of them) and prove it beyond doubt.

Given the importance the BBC have attached, I would say it is monumental.

The last time I discovered a new life form (well documented and photographed) it was sent to various universities and "lost". This is defo one we are chalking up to UCET.

Ian
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Last Edit: 4 months 2 weeks ago by Ian.
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UCET discover new fish first? 4 months 2 weeks ago #30803

  • mike leahy
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Well why aren't you in their with a camera :ohmy:
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UCET discover new fish first? 4 months 2 weeks ago #30804

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mike leahy wrote:
Well why aren't you in their with a camera :ohmy:

in camera is a latin phrase which translates as "behind closed doors" or "in private"

Surely you are not advocating I go solo caving in private?

:whistle:

Ian
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UCET discover new fish first? 4 months 2 weeks ago #30808

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OK so we can't claim that we have discovered the 1st naturalised cave fish in europe as we found this in 2017 not 2015. but we can claim the most northern, subject to confirmation.
TBA TBC TBONTBTITQ
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UCET discover new fish first? 4 months 2 weeks ago #30809

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Ian wrote:
mike leahy wrote:
Well why aren't you in their with a camera :ohmy:

in camera is a latin phrase which translates as "behind closed doors" or "in private"

Surely you are not advocating I go solo caving in private?

:whistle:

Ian
You have friends don't ya :S
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UCET discover new fish first? 4 months 2 weeks ago #30811

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Ant,
I can't find a reference to it being found in 2015 - the article is dated 4th April 2017?


Mike,
There are many definitions of the word "friend".


:dry:

Ian
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UCET discover new fish first? 4 months 2 weeks ago #30812

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Ian wrote:
There are many definitions of the word "friend".

I'll be your friend mate :kiss: I may be able to do a weekday trot there next week with camera if you fancy it? Work is quiet and I'm bored out of my brain :blink:
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