Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2

TOPIC: Brief Report on the Survey weekend

Brief Report on the Survey weekend 7 years 10 months ago #11700

Tim Watts and I went on the course in South Wales on laser surveying last weekend. It was excellent!

It is a long time since I have had to sit down for two whole days and absorb intense information, but I am very glad that Tim was there to master the techy stuff. I am very impressed how quickly he can work on his laptop with completely strange software.

The laser gun Tim had has now been professionally fitted up as an accurate survey tool, and it seems it is now talking to his portable number cruncher. Our next task is to actually survey a simple cave system and post the results on a universal depository that has been set up for all cave and mine data.

I was also overwhelmed by the size and magnificence of the South Wales caves. We only went into the first few chambers of Ogof Ffynnon Ddu, but a vast map on the wall of the study room showed the full extent of the system, and there is another just as big on the opposite wall Dan yr Ogof. It makes Poachers seem so small. These caves are also fully walk in and walk about. Ian would love them because the floors are relatively flat and the lower areas fully washed out. I had no idea there were caves like this in the UK.

I was also very impressed by the club hut - a row of nine railway cottages. Plan to go there again for a few days and actually explore the caves with Bella. Anyone else interested?

PS There is also a way to virtually explore this magnificaent cave at ogof.net/
Last Edit: 7 years 9 months ago by JohnNicholson.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Brief Report on the Survey weekend 7 years 10 months ago #11705

  • Doug
  • Doug's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Posts: 1250
  • Thank you received: 332
Yes, I am intertested, :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:
Mae bradwyr ymhobman
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Brief Report on the Survey weekend 7 years 10 months ago #11710

  • Mad-Dan
  • Mad-Dan's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Awesome
  • Posts: 1806
  • Thank you received: 167
back in work now so other than weekends, i cant do anything.

Theres LOADS of caves like that in the UK
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Brief Report on the Survey weekend 7 years 10 months ago #11712

Have you been there before Doug? Ogof Ffynnon Ddu. It would be great for us if there was someone who knows their way around the place.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Tom Elmore

Brief Report on the Survey weekend 7 years 10 months ago #11713

  • Doug
  • Doug's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Posts: 1250
  • Thank you received: 332
JohnNicholson wrote:
Have you been there before Doug? Ogof Ffynnon Ddu. It would be great for us if there was someone who knows their way around the place.
Sorry John, I think I have been there, :S but I dont remember anything about it.
by the way, if you are in my area anytime the rocking chair is more or less done.
Mae bradwyr ymhobman
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Brief Report on the Survey weekend 7 years 10 months ago #11715

  • LesW
  • LesW's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Posts: 735
  • Thank you received: 121
OFD is the finest cave in the UK B)

Obviously not as good as the caves on Mendip though... :whistle:
I'm a very busy person
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Brief Report on the Survey weekend 7 years 10 months ago #11717

Other cavers in the club hut asked if I had been to Mendip. We will come there one day Les to be sure. There is always so much to juggle in life.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Brief Report on the Survey weekend 7 years 10 months ago #11728

  • madmicks
  • madmicks's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Access Officer
  • Posts: 1594
  • Thank you received: 388
high John i have donr dan-yr-ogof its a walk in walk out for the show cave but not for the cavers flat out crawls 100 yds deep canals and all your party will be required to show bca insurance and under 18 not allowed
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Brief Report on the Survey weekend 7 years 10 months ago #11730

  • mike leahy
  • mike leahy's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Posts: 3706
  • Thank you received: 370
did'nt you get lost and nearly die last time you wher in south wales :evil: :evil:
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Brief Report on the Survey weekend 7 years 10 months ago #11732

  • madmicks
  • madmicks's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Access Officer
  • Posts: 1594
  • Thank you received: 388
right did not get lost but remember the dinghy bursting in the canals
and shimming up the stal in the roof
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Brief Report on the Survey weekend 7 years 10 months ago #11735

  • timwatts
  • timwatts's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Posts: 4353
  • Thank you received: 393
think it was a bit of an eye opener for poor John! ;-)
-
Tim Watts
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Brief Report on the Survey weekend 7 years 9 months ago #11745

timwatts wrote:
..... an eye opener for poor John! ;-)

'Poor John' had frightfull Neuralgia over the weekend, but thankfully feel much better now.

Until now I have thought that OHA was one of the longest caves in Britain, (if not the longest), and only a few cavers have ever managed to get to the very end (including Doug, Tim, Mike and others so recorded on video).

So can you imagine why I felt quite sick inside to see a whole wall covered in sprawling tangled and twisted cave mappage.

I now feel much humbled that the caves we have been brought up on are so pixy wicxy small, but I do still love them too.

When I go to any future caving event I must be careful not to say I come from North Wales, because it is like going to Brands Hatch in a pedal Noddy car.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Brief Report on the Survey weekend 7 years 9 months ago #11748

  • NewStuff
  • NewStuff's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Yeah, not liking that...
  • Posts: 883
  • Thank you received: 43
JohnNicholson wrote:
When I go to any future caving event I must be careful not to say I come from North Wales, because it is like going to Brands Hatch in a pedal Noddy car.

We have some awesome bloody mines though... who needs caves... nasty, wet crawly things, caves... :evil:

Did this Surveying include a DistoX? If so, I may have to bug You to pass some knowledge on, as I plan on getting one after Xmas.
You want me to go down *there*? On a bloody *rope*?
Last Edit: 7 years 9 months ago by NewStuff.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Brief Report on the Survey weekend 7 years 9 months ago #11749

  • LesW
  • LesW's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Posts: 735
  • Thank you received: 121
Not sure you will get a DistoX after Christmas, unless you have one reserved somewhere as there are none left and no components for any more.

ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=13606.msg186087#msg186087

:(
I'm a very busy person
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Brief Report on the Survey weekend 7 years 9 months ago #11763

This is a big worry Les.

I asked many times during the survey weekend if we will be able to obtain more Disto A3 and the add-on boards. It seems not. But VERY fortunately, Timm Watts has got the last board ever made, and already has bought a Disto A3 and the PDA. This was all soldered up by 'Footleg' at the course. So UCET does have one working kit. (It did let us down on the practical part of the course, so we had to manage using a different kit, but all seems well now)

But the whole concept seems morribund if there are no more add on boards and even the parts can no longer be obtained.

However, I feel that brilliant though this initial system is, there are better ways of working. The Disto-PDA technolgy is a long and tedious way to make a skeletal grid of a cave system, and the final maps still rely upon the skill and endurance of the surveyor in drawing the finer details on the slippery PDA screen underground, and then re-interpreting them on a graphic map on a PC in the warm. I got very cold whilst surveying (even though I was doublly dressed), and that was in a dry flat cave. You just don't move around enough whilst fiddling with electroinics.

I would like to work with others to bring forward a new approach using component parts now available (RS, Maplin etc) so the data is collected directly in the cave by a constantly spinning form of disto. I am very impressed by the virtuial images posted by Nottingham Cave Survey, and we saw a similar survey displayed of an amazing cave produced by a very expensive laser scanner (£60K plus).

I am sure there will be a boffin build alternative solution that can be concocted at home, and I am sure there is the technical expertise available amongst our caver members. It is a matter of contacting the right people with the relevant sectors of knowledge.

One thing that did impress me about the Survey Weekend is that the cost was £10.00. I was expecting more like £100 - or more, for the quality information provided by the five experts who ran the course, plus the array of computer equipment they dbrought along. I am assured that the course was strongly supported by the British Cave Association (or similar).

If they support this course then maybe they would support a similar project to advance the available technology. What has been achieved in terms of software development, and setting up a platform for the publication and exchange of data is an excellent framework for cave mappers using any form of collection technology.

From a Health & Safety perspective, as well as form mapping biology and bats etc a good 3D cave mapping system is very important. The cost would be enormous if done by any other way than through the enthusiasm of amateur cave mappers.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Brief Report on the Survey weekend 7 years 9 months ago #11772

  • NewStuff
  • NewStuff's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Yeah, not liking that...
  • Posts: 883
  • Thank you received: 43
Can someone enlighten me to the differences between the readily available Leica Disto and the DistoX? Why isn't the standard one suitable?
You want me to go down *there*? On a bloody *rope*?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Brief Report on the Survey weekend 7 years 9 months ago #11777

  • Tom Howard
  • Tom Howard's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Posts: 582
  • Thank you received: 121
Disto does distance only I think whereas DistoX (modified disto A3 i think they are) will do your compass, clino & distance which then gets sent via bluetooth to a PDA where you can draw up what you see :-) Very easy way to survey and can be a lot more detailed and precise.
The trees have ears, the hills have eyes. Trust no one... but the sheep.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Brief Report on the Survey weekend 7 years 9 months ago #11795

Yes, it was the distoX combination that we were using. In practice it is tiresomly tedious to work with, and it only produces a sort of wirework skeleton of the cave shape, and needs a lot of extra hand drawing on the part of the cave surveyor to produce anything useful.

I have spotted some other laser ideas on other forums. There is a lot to digest.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Brief Report on the Survey weekend 7 years 9 months ago #11808

  • LesW
  • LesW's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Posts: 735
  • Thank you received: 121
John,
although surveying with the DistoX is tedious, that is surveying generally.
The DIstoX is far superior to other electronic devices that have been developed before. Currently people are working on a variant of DistoX that works with a newer Disto and uses available components, however, so far they have yet to perfect it...

The old way of surveying was sighting through a compass and clinometer and measuring survey legs with a tape measure, write the readings into a notebook and also sketch the passage detail into the notebook as well. This si far more tedious and as a result, surveying complex caves takes many, many trips...

One you have the data then many hours are taken, transcribing the data into a surveying package on a pc, then plotting a centre line and quite often, sketching the passage detail by hand, coppied from the notes. This is incredibly labour intensive with lots of room for errors.

The posh laser scanners are very expensive and only capture a small part of passage at a time, you have to relocate the scanner along the passage/chamber until you think it has captured most data. It then requires many hours of post production on a very powerful pc to render it as a cave passage. It is cost prohibitive, pc intensive, labour intensive and is much more work than either the electronic or paper survey techniques. Rest assured though that people are working to develope something cheap and easy to use but the technology is still way beyond the cost or skill levels of most cavers...
I'm a very busy person
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Brief Report on the Survey weekend 7 years 9 months ago #11811

  • NewStuff
  • NewStuff's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Yeah, not liking that...
  • Posts: 883
  • Thank you received: 43
LesW wrote:
Currently people are working on a variant of DistoX that works with a newer Disto and uses available components, however, so far they have yet to perfect it...

I'll await the results of this with interest. Any links I can look at?
You want me to go down *there*? On a bloody *rope*?
The administrator has disabled public write access.
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2
Time to create page: 0.113 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum
| + - | RTL - LTR
Joomla! is Free Software released under the GNU/GPL License.